Show Notes
Billy sits down with Arzu of The Sculpt Room, a lymphatic drainage specialist based on the Surrey and Langley border, to unpack a part of tattoo removal that rarely gets talked about: what happens after the laser shatters the pigment. Arzu explains that the lymphatic system, which has no pump of its own, is what carries those broken-down particles out of the body, and that it depends on hydration, movement, and muscle contraction to keep flowing. The same habits that make lymphatic drainage work are the ones that support good removal results.
They also get practical. Arzu covers waiting until the treated area is no longer inflamed before booking a session (about a week for larger tattoos), why once or twice a week fits neatly inside the two-month interval between laser treatments, and why bony, low-flow areas like the hands and feet clear more slowly. She walks through who should avoid lymphatic drainage, what at-home options like dry brushing and rebounding can do between visits, and what to look for in a therapist. Good aftercare and a healthy lymphatic system, it turns out, are working toward the same thing.
Full Transcript
Billy: Today we have Arzu and she is a lymphatic massage specialist and her company name is The Sculpt Room and she's based in. Is it Vancouver or Richmond?
Arzu: It's right on the border of Surrey and Langley.
Billy: Okay. Out in the Fraser Valley. Kind of.
Arzu: Yeah.
Billy: Okay. Clayton Heights, I think it's called.
Arzu: Okay.
Billy: All right. So tell me a little bit about lymphatic massage. How does how does lymphatic massage differ from a regular massage?
Arzu: Okay. So lymphatic drainage massage is more about directional and rhythmic flow. So it's supposed to help in swelling. Get rid of excess toxins in your body, reduce inflammation. Whereas traditional massage, it's more about deeper to get the muscles, the knots and the tension. And that's more if you have like after a car accident or if you are sore from the gym, whereas lymphatic drainage is more constipation, digestion, swelling, inflammation. It targets those kinds of things.
Billy: So lymphatic massage is obviously it's moving your lymph around your body.
Arzu: Yes.
Billy: But in addition to your lymph it's moving other liquids or?
Arzu: Yes. So the lymph fluid contains the toxins, the waste and the excess fluid. So the lymph is what we're moving around. But that's what contains all the excess wastes in your body.
Billy: So when your lymph has the toxins in it, what happens to the toxins? Does it get picked up? And from my understanding anyway, and I've not done much research into this, but from what I understand the lymph has the toxins. And then it goes to the lymph node which is like a filter.
Arzu: Yes, exactly. So the lymphatic drainage, you can think about it as your body's cleaning and filtration system.
Billy: So explain to me again when the lymph has a toxin or has the toxins. And that's also kind of what happens with tattoo removal. And that's why, that's why I think there's such a tie here. But before we get into lymphatic drainage and how that relates to tattoo removal, I just want to better understand the process of the lymph and lymphatic massage. And then we'll see if we can kind of tie the two together.
Arzu: Okay. So with lymphatic drainage, that's also why the direction is so important. Because we're moving the fluid towards the lymph nodes and not opposite of the lymph nodes, or else there'd be nowhere to drain. So the lymph nodes are the main parts where the drainage happens. So there's over 600 to 700 lymph nodes in our bodies.
Billy: So really. Yeah, there's that many?
Arzu: With 30% in our faces.
Billy: Most is in your face. 30% of the lymph nodes. Oh there's a lot of lymph nodes in the face. So that's when you get sick, you start feeling like this part starts.
Arzu: Yes. It starts getting sores, starts getting puffy. So for when I do the massage, the majority of the time is spent on the stomach and the face. So it's an hour and a half treatment. But let's say if someone has something like lipedema or lymphedema and they want more focus in, say, their legs, then it would be customized to have more focus on the legs.
Billy: Okay. So let's get back to the lymph a little bit. So the lymph carries the toxins to the lymph nodes. And the lymph nodes pick up the toxins. And then what happens? Do you know, do you know what happens to the toxins once they hit the lymph nodes?
Arzu: Yeah. So let's say I did a client and we finished a lymphatic drainage massage on her. So after a lymphatic massage the client is going to feel this need to go to the washroom a lot. Like, pee to pee.
Billy: Okay.
Arzu: Even if they don't drink water, they'll still feel like they need to pee constantly throughout the day. And that's because basically, we moved all the lymph fluid to the lymph nodes and they're ready to exit the system, but it's up to the client to flush it out. So it's just all that stagnant fluid that was just spread throughout the body has, is now ready to be exited because we've moved them along and got the circulation going.
Billy: Okay. So the lymph nodes, are they kind of attached to the bladder? Like how does that work?
Arzu: No. So the, when you get a lymphatic drainage massage, there's basically two main ways to flush it out of your system. And that's through peeing and through sweating. So it escapes in those two ways.
Billy: So if you get lymphatic massage, what type of thing do you tell your client to do after the massage to help improve the effect of it? Do you tell them to hit the sauna or do some exercising, or what do you recommend afterwards?
Arzu: Yeah, so the aftercare of a lymphatic drainage massage is really important because it takes up to three days for your body to flush everything that we've worked on. So drinking at least two liters of water every day, getting some sort of movement in even if it's just walking for 20 minutes a day. Also things like, yeah, the sauna, working out, that's all important because unlike the circulatory system, the lymphatic drainage system doesn't have a heart to pump it. So in order for our lymphatic drainage to get the circulation going, it depends on things like hydration, movement and muscles, muscle contraction.
Billy: Muscle contraction.
Arzu: Yeah. So like actually working out.
Billy: So working out.
Arzu: Yeah. So if someone is not drinking enough water, they're not, they're not moving their body. They're not working out. So they're going to be an ideal client who needs lymphatic drainage massage because they're just inflamed everywhere. And they have a bunch of fluid inside their body.
Billy: That's so interesting. I always knew that the lymph was, didn't have a pump. Well, I learned.
Arzu: That, well, not a lot of people know.
Billy: That years ago. Well, like. And don't you have more lymph than you do blood.
Arzu: Yeah. So you have, and that's a funny thing. You have more lymph than you do blood, but you have a pump that's pumping.
Billy: The heart to keep it going. Yeah. Your, your heart's your pump for the blood, but you have no pump for your lymph. So the only way to make the lymph move is to move your body. And you have to stay hydrated, obviously. And then.
Arzu: Contracting your muscles.
Billy: I didn't know that that was one too. So that's actually pretty interesting because, and I know we talked about this when you came in because you were a client or still are a client of ours. Yeah. Are you still a client?
Arzu: I'm still a client.
Billy: Okay. Always be a client. Okay. So we talked about this, and it was pretty interesting. The correlation or the connection between lymphatic drainage massage and tattoo removal.
Arzu: Yeah. So with tattoo removal, the laser targets the pigment. And now that pigment is in your system.
Billy: What you're trying to say is that the laser hits the pigment and shatters the pigment. And then it's in your system for your lymph to pick up.
Arzu: Yes.
Billy: And then when your lymph picks it up, if you don't have any type of lymphatic drainage massage or treatment compared to if you did have it, do you think, and just this is your opinion, do you think there would be a huge increase in flow of the lymph if you had the treatment?
Arzu: Yeah. So if you have, if you combine lymphatic drainage with tattoo removal, it's a nice add on for overall recovery after tattoo removal because it'll help get rid of the, the ink particles that are in your system.
Billy: Yeah. And we always tell people like the way that you can help the process is by staying hydrated, eating healthy, getting good sleep and just exercising, moving your body. And that's actually exactly.
Arzu: What.
Billy: You just recommended to do.
Arzu: To the aftercare.
Billy: To get the lymph moving is the same exact thing. So it sounds like to me that these are very closely tied together, and I don't know if there's any research done on the effects of lymphatic drainage massage with tattoo removal, but I would be willing to bet that there's a very close relationship between someone who is, you know, healthy and getting their lymph moving, whether it's with assistance from someone like you or just, you know, really getting their body moving and, you know, doing some things that get your lymph really flowing, like I heard. And I don't know if this is right or wrong, but I heard that jumping on like a rebounder, you know, those little trampolines. Yeah. Those things really get your lymph moving.
Arzu: Yeah, I actually have one. I don't really have time to go to someone for my own lymphatic drainage. So I just do it at home. And there's a lot of things that you can do at home to support the lymphatic drainage system.
Billy: Like give me a couple examples of some things that you can do. And this is, this is beneficial for the people who are getting tattoo removal because the lymph is picking up the tattoo particles. That's a proven fact. So what are some things that people can do to move their lymph besides getting lymphatic drainage massage?
Arzu: Okay. Aside from the ones that we mentioned with like the movement and hydration, the two obvious ones, there's also the rebounder, which I have one, and I, and I love it. It makes me so tired too. But there's also dry brushing.
Billy: Dry brushing.
Arzu: Yeah, that's really great.
Billy: I'm obsessed with dry brushing.
Arzu: What is that?
Billy: I preach it, so you basically it's, it's a bristle and you just in the direction of your lymph nodes, you just put it against your body and you just dry brush it.
Arzu: Okay. So in the direction.
Billy: But it has to be a certain direction, in the direction of your lymph nodes. Now if you did it in the opposite direction of your lymph nodes would that be counterproductive then?
Arzu: Yeah. Because if you're doing it in the opposite way where you, you're just moving the fluid and the swelling to go to other places where they can't exit.
Billy: I see.
Arzu: Yeah. So it has to be in the direction of the lymph nodes with lymphatic drainage. I would say. Coming back to your first question, I would say the most important thing is the direction. Because, you know, traditional massage, it's more like just pressing in random spots, putting pressure but with lymphatic drainage like direction is really important.
Billy: So is there, is there a way for somebody to do lymphatic massage completely wrong. Like could you, I'm not saying that you would do that. But like are there, are there people who are uneducated doing lymphatic drainage massage where they're pushing the lymph in the wrong direction? Do you think that happens?
Arzu: It's not so much the direction. Because if you, let's say, took a course in the lymphatic drainage, like, like you know, the direction. So that part I feel like is difficult to get wrong, but it's more the pressure. So if you end up putting too much pressure, then that could become counterproductive because it ends up causing more inflammation, because now you've overstimulated your lymph nodes and you've caused them to get inflamed because you're putting too much pressure.
Billy: Okay. So there is a way to do it right, and there's a wrong way to do it.
Arzu: Yeah.
Billy: Okay. When somebody gets tattoo removal, how soon after the laser treatment would it be beneficial to get some sort of lymphatic drainage massage?
Arzu: That's hard to say. Lymphatic drainage massage. I always stumble it myself.
Billy: I always stumble over it myself.
Arzu: As long as the client has finished their recovery process. So if they're not over sensitive and there's no redness and they can start right away.
Billy: And I know sometimes that doesn't take too long. Like when I did eyebrow removal, I think in three days like it, less than three days actually. It was okay.
Arzu: Okay. So that's a small tattoo though. So we're talking a little eyebrow here. Yeah. But if you're doing like let's say you're doing a sleeve or you're doing like a big piece on your leg, it does sometimes stay inflamed for like a week or so. And it might not be like super puffy, but it's going to be like a little bit sensitive still.
Billy: Do you recommend waiting until all of that sensitivity is gone before you start doing any type of lymphatic drainage massage?
Arzu: Yeah, I would recommend to wait until the area is not sensitive or inflamed anymore, because if it's already inflamed and then we're putting more pressure to it, it might cause it to get more inflamed. I would say minimum a week wait time is fine.
Billy: Okay. And then this is something I have no idea about. But what's the intervals like? How often should somebody get a massage?
Arzu: So it really depends on what their goals are and what they're coming for. So for example, if it's someone who's had surgery like, and that's like cosmetic surgery, then they would need to come to three times a week. Some of them want to come every day, but I, I'm not able to fit them in every day, but they come to three times a week because they have so much toxin and excess fluid in their body from the surgery. So they need a lot of assistance and getting rid of that. And then if it's someone who's just doing maintenance, then once or twice a month, and for someone who just got a tattoo removal, then I would suggest once a week or once every two weeks.
Billy: Okay. Because the tattoo removal intervals are usually a minimum of two months. And a lot of times we get clients who come in and they want to just keep coming. They're like, why do I have to wait two months? Can I just come in a month later?
Arzu: That was me.
Billy: That was you. And it's, it's a natural thing to think like, the more aggressively you schedule the treatments, the quicker it's going to fade. But that's not the case. And it actually can be counterproductive if you come in too soon. So I would love to be able to help people improve the efficacy of the laser by referring them to someone like you who can help them get the fading going by moving the lymph around. But I just don't know anything about it. Like, what do I say? Go once a week. Go once a month. You know, in this, in this two month interval, or maybe it's a three month interval. Should they go twice or three times a month? Do you think that would be helpful?
Arzu: Yeah. Because like I get what you're saying about when you're doing aggressive treatment, it doesn't help fade it faster because you have to leave that recovery time. But for lymphatic system, you can do it every day. And it's totally fine because it's just using the hands. There's no machines involved, it's safe and it's gentle enough. And like some people, they swell every single day. So some people actually need a massage every single day and it's gentle enough to get every day. So for clients who have a tattoo removal minimum once or twice a week would suffice. They wouldn't need to come.
Billy: Okay.
Arzu: Every day because they don't have like the other issues like swelling. There's more like getting rid of the toxins from their ink. And after you do lymphatic drainage, it does take a while for the toxins to get out of your body. So you want to leave enough time for your body to finish the work from the last massage as well.
Billy: Yeah, same as tattoo removal. The same thing like when you laser pigment. It takes a long time for that to work. The laser is really fast with breaking down the pigment, but it takes your body quite a bit of time to pick up those particles. Because it darkens the next day. Right. And then come, then goes back to light. It doesn't actually dark. And I think a lot of times what people see is you're seeing skin irritation with the tattoo pigment. And those combined, it'll make it appear darker just because. Just because the pigment is over top of some irritation. So it always looks like the pigment got darker, but it's actually not getting darker at all. It usually, well, I take that back. Sometimes it will get darker if it's like an eyebrow and it has red or white pigment in it, sometimes it'll oxidize and then that's completely different. But if we're talking about like a body tattoo, it will look darker. But that's just because it's irritated.
Arzu: Oh okay.
Billy: Okay. Yeah. So I think based on what you mentioned, I think the plan, a good plan would be you get tattoo removal, you wait a couple weeks, let all the inflammation and the irritation subside, and then after a couple of weeks, start the lymphatic drainage massage for maybe two, or I would say two times a week would be, yeah, enough. And you could do that through the course of the two months, go even once a week. I'm sure it would be helpful.
Arzu: Yeah. Once a week totally is fine.
Billy: Yeah. So then you could do that. And that'll definitely help with the process of the fading. That's what I think. I mean, I once again, this hasn't been like proven. It hasn't been, I don't think anybody studied it. But why wouldn't it work? I would, I would like to know, I would like to hear from someone who has. Yeah. An opinion contradicting what we're saying because I can't see how it wouldn't help.
Arzu: I would say the fading part. It's hard to really like make a general statement because I know with the tattoo removal, it also depends on the ink and the placement and also the client's aftercare, because I heard that like tattoo in some areas fade faster than others. I heard the hand tattoo like they fade faster because we're constantly using our hands. Washing it.
Billy: Yeah, well, sometimes finger tattoos actually take longer because there's less circulation in your hands and your feet. Then there is, let's say, on your neck or your torso. So a lot of times we'll do a finger tattoo and somebody will come in and they'll be like, oh yeah, it's just a small tattoo. It should fade right away. Well, that's not always the case. If it's deep into the skin in your fingers, it could take longer. And most of the time it does take longer than if that same exact tattoo was on your chest or your thigh or somewhere where it's really, you know, there's a lot more flow going on.
Arzu: What about in areas where it's more bony, like the foot? Does it take more sessions?
Billy: Feet definitely do take more sessions. It takes more time. But I think that's more about the location. Like not, not so much like thinner skin or bony areas. It's more about less flow. I think there's less.
Arzu: That's what I was thinking, like tying it back to lymphatic drainage. It would make sense for it to take longer there too, because like the feet again, there's not like many lymph nodes there. And it's just bone where it's like the calf there's, people have more swelling there.
Billy: Yeah. So it'd be, it helped fade it faster. Like in those areas where it's like where there's bony.
Arzu: I feel like even with lymphatic system, it's still going to take a little longer just because there's not much flow happening in those areas naturally.
Billy: And it seems like it's the same for a tattoo, then.
Arzu: Yeah, it's exactly the same.
Billy: So would you be able to customize a treatment for just somebody? Suppose I had like an ankle tattoo and it's not fading. Or you had a client who had a hand tattoo and it's just not fading as much as they thought. Would you be able to customize a treatment for that specific body part? Or, you know, maybe you want to do it symmetrical or whatever, but for special body parts to get the lymph flowing in certain parts over others?
Arzu: Yeah. Like if someone had a certain area where they had a tattoo removal, I would customize it by just focusing on that area more because like lymphatic direction and the movements would still be the same, movements will actually be a little bit more customized. But the main thing is I would just spend more focus on it compared to like if I did it as part of a full body. If I did it as a part of full body, I would just make sure to spend more focus on that area rather than other areas that they don't really need it.
Billy: Yeah. Okay. Have a couple more questions here. You're doing great.
Arzu: Am I fine now?
Billy: Yeah a little. You're not, you're not. You don't seem nervous at all.
Arzu: No I haven't been looking at the camera at all. Is that fine?
Billy: You're not supposed to.
Arzu: Oh, okay. I'm just been looking.
Billy: At you. We're talking to each other. Okay. If you look at the camera, it's weird. You're like, hey, no. Okay, I have a, I have a question here. So are there any situations where somebody should avoid a lymphatic massage?
Arzu: Yeah. If they had a laser tattoo removal and they have things like active blistering, which I know you can get sometimes from tattoo removal. So active blistering, it's really, really inflamed those kinds of situations. I would definitely avoid it until the area calms down. If they get like a skin reaction or skin irritation in the area.
Billy: Okay, what about not even talking about tattoo removal, but just in general? Do you ever turn people away like I'm assuming you don't do it on pregnant or breastfeeding?
Arzu: Yeah. There is actually lymphatic drainage prenatal. It's called prenatal massage, like lymphatic drainage for people who are pregnant. Okay. But I don't specialize in that. So if someone comes to me and they're like, oh, I'm pregnant, can you do my lymphatic massages for them? For example, I would turn down and I would refer them to a prenatal specialist. I see, yeah, there's also other situations like if someone has active cancer, I can't do that because there's a risk of spreading, spreading the cancer because we're moving it all around. Yeah, I've had cancer survivors, actually had quite a few cancer survivors. But, and for them it was safe to do because they've already beaten cancer. But for someone who has active cancer, I wouldn't recommend. Okay. There's also heart if they have heart or liver conditions. And then obviously like skin conditions, like if you have like eczema or any rashes or anything like that, you usually just wait until after. That's interestingly enough, I've had clients come to me because of their eczema. So we did a lymphatic drainage massage, and they all say that it actually helps reduce their eczema inflammation. So I have done clients who have like eczema. It can actually help your skin. Yeah okay. With lymphatic system when you get the blood and circulation going. It also has a bunch of other benefits like the skin, hair growth, energy. So I think it has some skin benefits for clients who have certain skin conditions.
Billy: When somebody books an appointment with you, what is it typically look like? So you said it's an hour and a half. And then is it? Explain how it goes. Like what? What normally happens. Do you assess the body first like if it's a first appointment with somebody?
Arzu: So actually usually I get to know the clients before they even come in. So I get to know like what their goals are. If they have surgery, they tell me, I ask them all the questions I need about where they got the surgery, how many they got in the past, where is there swelling occurring. So I feel like for me, I actually do an assessment before they even come in so that once they come in, maybe it'll be like a quick overview and then we can start. But usually the communication for me usually happens before they even come in, because I talked to a lot of clients on the phone and they send pictures, I simply ask them for pictures. I go, let's see your legs if they have like the lymphedema condition. Okay. Yeah. So then, and so once they come in we do like a quick overview of their goals and which helps me figure out which areas I want to focus more on.
Billy: If somebody wanted to book with you how do they find you? Are you online? Do they book online? Do they have to call you? What's the deal?
Arzu: Yeah, I think I've been getting a lot of word of mouth and also through Google searches. So surprisingly, it's not so much Instagram inquiries. Before when I first started, it was a lot of Instagram inquiries that people were finding me. But right now it's mostly through Google searches. And basically when they search me, it takes them to my website and through my website. It takes them through like a consultation form where they fill out. Okay. And then I would get the inquiry through email. Okay. But it's mostly phone calls and emails.
Billy: Is your business, is it only you or do you have people who work for you?
Arzu: It's only me right now. But now that I was training actually. Like what? Like a while back then it got so busy with clients, so I let it go for a while. But then I was getting a lot of inquiries again, so I picked it up again. It is only me. But now that I'm. But now that I have students, I'm hoping I can just send them like people, which will help ease my list. Yeah, because it's when it's just. I don't know if you ever started like with just you before in the business. But I think.
Billy: How do you think I got here like.
Arzu: Oh, when you have, like multiple people.
Billy: I have people working here now. But when I first started, it was just me and my own two hands. So you're probably like doing what I'm doing right now where you're like six, 7 a.m. until 8 p.m. working. Just you like back to back, no breaks.
Arzu: I work nonstop, and even when, even when I'm not doing the treatments, I'm doing admin stuff or.
Billy: Yeah, you know, marketing or the website or following up on emails and making sure that not only now do I have to do my job, but I have to make sure that everybody else is doing their job properly, too. So I have to oversee what the whole system is doing.
Arzu: So would you say now that you've like, now that you've expanded and you've hired more employees, that it's even more work for you, like even more stress, and when you were just doing it alone.
Billy: It's a different type of stress or, you know, time consumption. Before it was just me doing the, the actual treatments or tattoos or whatever you want to call it. So I've tattooed for years and then I did the scalp micro pigmentation for years. I taught that for a while. I still do some teachings and I have like online courses and stuff. But now that I've hired laser techs and, you know, front desk staff and we're franchising, so we have to kind of make sure that they're doing okay too. You know, that's my obligation. So yeah, it's different time now. Instead of me being in the treatment room all the time, I'm doing more of the, the admin stuff.
Arzu: Okay. So you're still working just as much, but just your focus has shifted to other areas of work, like instead of the physical, it's more like an oversee, managing type work.
Billy: Yeah. Instead of operating as much, I'm doing more of the, I guess you would call it managerial stuff, but I am working more than I was before when it was just me. Like just my, I used to have a private studio and I was tattooing, and I could just close the door and walk out and it was like, easy. I didn't have to worry about anything or anybody. I had the keys. Nobody else was going in, and it was just so simple. But then, you know, being simple like that, you're never really going to retire. Like you're going to constantly be working for yourself. So I had a, I had a talk with myself and I was like, okay, it's time to put the work in now. And if you put the work in now, then five, hopefully five years from now, I can kind of step back and let.
Arzu: Like there's. No. Like growth with your business if you just kept it.
Billy: Just myself. Yeah. So maybe the same with you too. Like I don't know what your plans are. You know, everybody has different goals, but if you would, I think you have great potential to work with. You know, you could, you could start your own little chain of, like, places, or you could maybe partner with a company, like, maybe a laser tattoo removal business, who's, who's expanding, you know.
Arzu: Well, yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to expand.
Billy: But I think this, I think something like this would be a great ancillary service for like a tattoo removal business. So for example, my, my studios, we all have, we have like separate rooms, we have a room where we do the laser treatments, but then we have other rooms. I would, I would love to have somebody like you come on board and be a, I don't know if it would be a partner or like a sub. I don't know how we would work it, but we could work together and share clients and, you know. Yeah, I think that would be a great fit.
Arzu: Yeah. Definitely was thinking like, I can't do it by myself forever because I'm just exhausting and it's such a, it's such a physical type of work. So I've definitely been, that's definitely been in the back of my head, like, what am I going to do? How am I going to continue this at this pace? And it's starting to get to that point where now the business is faster than what I can do, like the pace of it. The workload is to.
Billy: The workload is too much now.
Arzu: And I didn't even, and I didn't really know it was going to go this way, because when I first started this business, it was always meant to be a side business, actually.
Billy: What was your main?
Arzu: I was a IT developer.
Billy: Oh yeah. You're smart.
Arzu: That was a, I was a IT analyst. Turned IT senior, turned IT leader, turned IT developer. But I was like, there's no way I'm going to grow doing this kind of job. So I was like, I'll just start like a side business and see how that goes. And then it got really busy. The side business. Then that's when I quit my IT job.
Billy: Yeah, yeah.
Arzu: And a lot of people are like, you, why'd you quit your IT job? Because I was working for the federal government, so it has a lot of benefits. But I'm too young to care about the benefits.
Billy: Well, it's, it's nice to have something stable, but.
Arzu: You don't grow in that kind.
Billy: Of like, you're, like, capped. Then you have.
Arzu: Your cap. You're, no, there's no room for growth, and then you're just going to be spinning your wheels for the rest of your life. That's at least my mentality.
Billy: There are a lot of people out there who don't have the desire to go and own their own business, and they just, they want that stable job, and they would love to have your job that you had before. But there are other people who are entrepreneurs who want to grow, and they don't want any cap. Like they, like the feeling of waking up and knowing that. What's the next step? Anything to happen? Yeah. When you own your own business, anything can happen on any given day. You know the sky's the limit. And when you go into a 9 to 5 job, you know what is going to, you know what that whole day is going to look like. You know what? The whole week, the whole month, the whole year is going to look like. And it's kind of to me, I don't.
Arzu: Like mundane.
Billy: Yeah. To me that's pretty boring. But there are some people who like that and they just want to do their job and leave and then go live their actual life. Yeah. You know, so there's, it's a different mentality. And I'm not saying one is better than the other. I'm just saying that I am one type of person and you seem to be that same personality. So yeah.
Arzu: Because it depends on the person, on the person too. Yeah. Some people just like differentiating like work and home life. So I feel like those kinds of people may prefer the, can I say 9 to 5.
Billy: You can say nine. Five, 9 to 5. It is a nine.
Arzu: Well that's what it is.
Billy: It's like a steady, it's a steady gig with no, with no surprises, you know. Yeah. So that's great.
Arzu: Definitely felt like it was not for me though.
Billy: Yeah. Me neither. But yeah, I know we had, we had scheduled a little pop up thing and, you know, thinking about back to when we did a pop, we were going to do a little pop up at our studio in Langley, and I still think it's a great fit. I don't think that it's something that wouldn't work. I just think, you know, like if you do a pop up, it's a one day and it's hard for people to like. That one. You're giving somebody such a small window of time to kind of like figure out their schedule or whatever. I still would like to at some point work with you to figure out, like, you know, how we can maybe, I don't know if you want to call it partner or work together so we can both, like, grow together. If you can figure out a way to do that. I would love to, but yeah.
Arzu: Yeah, I think I definitely be interested in it too. And I know when we did the, when we did the pop up, it was just like one like single day. And that was just because it was the only like day I had. Yeah.
Billy: Yeah. But I know, like and I think it was like a Monday to.
Arzu: Yeah a lot of people it doesn't work for a lot of people. That's like the work day. Like kids are going back to school. It gets busy. So I'm definitely interested to try that again.
Billy: Yeah. But maybe. And I know you have like a huge workload and you're probably booked out for months. So it's hard for you, you to turn down your steady work to try something new. But you know, because you have students and you have people who you've trained, it may make sense then to, you know, get a space besides like because you work out of your home.
Arzu: Yeah, yeah.
Billy: So to have like a commercial space where clients can come and you could even have like a rotating staff where you could have somebody come on Monday and a different person come on Wednesday and somebody else come on Friday, where you're offering the service in a public space where it can kind of cross-pollinate a little bit. So when we have clients who are coming in for tattoo removal and I'm like, yeah, come back in a couple months and they're all bummed out, they're like, well, I want to come back sooner because I want this thing to fade faster. That's when I would love to just point somebody into your room and be like, why don't you go talk to her. About getting your lymph moving a little bit? And this will definitely help with the process without actually doing the laser. So that was my intention of trying to do like a pop up with you.
Arzu: Oh I see, yeah. And that makes sense. And it kind of helps the client like I guess get less anxious about that waiting time. They feel like they're actually doing something maybe to help with the fading, because I know how impatient clients can be.
Billy: Like you. Were you one of them?
Arzu: Yes. Can I. Come in, like, three weeks?
Billy: I'm like, hey, can I come in for my. Next one? It just doesn't make sense. You should know more than anybody else, but yeah. Okay. So thank you very much for coming in today. I really feel like I learned a lot about lymph and lymphatic drainage massage. I hope that this was helpful for people watching. Oh, one last thing. If somebody's watching from somewhere else and they're not able to book with you or your network, what's something that people should look for in a lymphatic drainage massage therapist?
Arzu: Okay, I would say education experience is big because then someone would be able to know what areas you need to work on or if it's safe for you to go through with the treatment or give you more information. So I would say education experience is big, but also communication because you'll want someone to be like, what are your goals? What are you looking for? Instead of like just going to someone and then they're like, okay, I'll take you in, but there's no background or getting to know the client. The other thing is, I would also say it depends on, a lot of people ask me for coverage for medical. I get that question a lot. And I would say if someone wants more like a medical type lymphatic drainage, then they can go to an RMT. So there's actually two types of, two main types of lymphatic massages. There's one that's more medical. So if the client is looking for coverage, than I would direct them towards an RMT. But the thing with an RMT is that they do a specific type of lymphatic massage and it's very, very light. So for example it's mostly just tapping, tapping but like this, like this lightness. Whereas me, it's kind of like, like this, like I'm like a, like a good pressure to get the lymph going. But the other one is, it is covered. But, and I have a lot of clients coming from and they're like, oh, I did the lymphatic from. Right. But it felt like nothing like I could have just done, you know, this.
Billy: I would. I would be so bummed out if I went to get a lymphatic massage and I was getting tapped like, yeah, like I could have done that myself. Sorry. Yeah, but I guess everybody has their own way of doing it. And you can't, you can't knock anybody's.
Arzu: Actually the, the they learn lymphatic in their studies. But it's the, it's the technique that they're, that they learn. It's the medical one. And the medical one is mostly like tapping just to stimulate your lymph nodes. And then it's up to the client to do the rest. Whereas for me, I stimulate it and also do the physical drain as well.
Billy: I see. Yeah. Okay. Well thanks a lot for coming today. I really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to share some information about lymph and lymphatic massage.
Arzu: Thank you for having me. This was really nice.
Billy: Yeah, yeah, it was fun.
Arzu: Yeah.
Billy: And I'll see you again. I think you're coming in for your brows at some point here.
Arzu: I think I have one more session, maybe here.
Billy: Okay. And yeah, if, if anybody has any questions about lymphatic massage and you're in the area, feel free to reach out directly. Say your website again. What is it?
Arzu: It's the, thesculptroom.ca.
Billy: Okay. So they can reach you there. And then what is your Instagram. Do you have, you have an Instagram.
Arzu: Yeah I do it's just the sculpt room.
Billy: Okay. So yeah people can find you online on your website or through Instagram and yeah, reach out directly if you have questions about lymphatic massage. And maybe, just maybe, we can do another pop up. Give it another try.
Arzu: Yeah, let's give it a try.
Billy: I really want to see if it'll work as far as like getting some clients interested, like some of our tattooing clients, I think it's mainly just spreading some awareness and letting people know that this could definitely benefit them in their tattoo removal process.
Arzu: Yeah.
Billy: Okay. Well, thanks a lot for coming in.
Arzu: Thank you so much.
Billy: All right. All right. Toodles.
Arzu: Bye.